Guilt for sin is not hereditary. persecuted and killed the Gibeonites men in a covenant relationship with Israel who served at the tabernacle. Why was David so loyal to Saul after everything Saul had done to him? We have all these things coming at the end time, which is very short. Yet, because of the long time that has passed since then until now, when the Gibeonites were asked to bring it up, how many of the guilty ones had died? Saul, after having disqualified himself from being king, sought to ingratiate himself with God by killing Canaanites, including an unrecorded massacre of Gibeonites. but Saul had sought to kill them in his zeal for the children of Israel and Judah. David represents usJoe Church Membertrue Christians in a time of spiritual famine, much like what Amos describes in Amos 8:11, with the famine of the word. Asked August 31 2013 There is demotion. Therefore, one of the first things that Joshua and the Israelites do is they allow a big problem to linger in their midst. Then, I am sure, he started to think about other things that were happening, and he started to make some reforms in himself. The Gibeonites joined in the fight against the Philistines B. Sheba's rebellion is in the previous chapter, II Samuel 20. However, there was a difference between Israel's version and the Gentiles' principle of vengeance or retribution. The Lord told them they had made a commitment to these people and they had to stand by it. He did not do anything to directly intervene. It takes into consideration things like accidental death, and premeditation. Two years is a long time. Spiritual virtues and qualities are largely unseen yet are more real and potent in lasting effects than the most formidable nuclear pile. Also, the Lord pronounced, It is a result of the massacre by Saul and welcome classification because Saul indeed destroyed the Gibeonites in the Bible. 1. WebSaul, Israel's first king thought he knew better than God. They handed their enemies hard, stale, moldy bread and told them it had been freshly baked when they left home. And if He sinned, then He could not be our Savior. There were big problems, and one of them was the consequences and effects of Saul and his bloodthirsty house. All answers are REVIEWED and MODERATED. The two hints are that Saul and his house had a reputation for violence"Saul and his bloodthirsty house." Her actions made David realize that he had violated another of God's commands by leaving the bodies of Saul, Jonathan, and the seven other sons unburied. WebThe LORD answered, It is for Saul, and for his bloody house, because he slew the Gibeonites. And then King David inquired of the Lord. They knew all the things God had stipulated about what they were to do when Israel was going to come into the land. My reading between the lines concludes that King David was at a spiritual low point at this time. Now the Gibeonites were not of the people of Israel but of the remnant of the Amorites. He was the king. It is the time of the beginning of the barley harvest. We have a very simple biblical principle here: God is just. WebThe Philistines decided not to attack D. God gave Saul three options to choose from as he went out against the Philistines. There are things like destruction for their sin, and the family takes that long to recover from that destruction. What might he have done? He was distracted. However, the Gibeonites did. And after that God heeded the prayer for the land. God spared them as a people, but His nation condemned them to endless servitude. Finally, after six or seven months, the rains came in their natural cycle. Then there is another thing. What have you been thinking about?". II Samuel 21:1-14 Now there was a famine in the days of David for three years, year after year; and David inquired of the LORD. You are no longer fit to be king." Joshua kept his word to the Gibeonites even when it was inconvenient. fit into Creation? We have an easier time identifying with the flawed, but heroic, Lancelot from the legends of King Arthur, because he is a lot more like ushe commits sin; he has faults. He was not really on the ball like he should have been. Jew or gentile? It is not the sin of Adam and Eve; it is their own sin. Jamieson, Fausset and Brown comments: It was a heathen practice to gibbet men with a view of appeasing the anger of the gods in seasons of famine, and the Gibeonites, who were a remnant of the Amorites, though brought to the knowledge of the true God, were not, it seems, free from this superstition. This cultural trait makes it difficult for many people to identify with Jesus Christ. It does not seem to me that during this time of the three years of famine David was emulating the attitude that he wrote about in Psalm 34. Even their empty wine skins were completely dried up and cracked. But Joshua had the final decision. Before she married David, Abigail had been the wife of _____. Web2 Samuel 21:1 Context. This traditional doctrine, as heard in a Catholic or Protestant church, would say that this sin of Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden rests upon us still. David didnt get the throne until Saul and Jonathon were both dead. David was anointed king many years before he took the throne. He had Saul tryin Vote Up The Gibeonites actually lived only a few miles from Jericho, the Twelve Tribes' designated entry point to Palestine. The Israelite version was a whole lot less absolute. In their poverty and slavery the bowed but ever proud Gibeonites refused financial and other forms of compensation for the attempted genocide on their tribe. There are references to the Lord, but they are not references in a spiritual sense. But so did David. Just tell me and I will do it for you.. The Jewish Encyclopedia asserts that one group of rabbis felt that Saul's punishment at God's hands is a sign of his weak moral character whose only virtue was being tall and handsome. Then they answered the king, "As for the man who consumed us and plotted against us, that we should be destroyed from remaining in any of the territories of Israel, "let seven men of his descendants be delivered to us, and we will hang them before the LORD in Gibeah of Saul, whom the LORD chose." They knew! We want them to reflect what a real person would do in extreme or extraordinary circumstances. I know that is how I always read itas straight historyand I did not think about it very much. Based on this principle, I think we can be confident that justice was carried out in this very nasty incident, even though we are not told all the details of what happened. For unknown reasons, Joshua and the elders of Israel quickly bit on this proposal. WebWhich city did Saul destroy when he found that its priests had given David's men provision? Something is wrong, David. It is easy to read this story blithely, and to think that David righted some longstanding wrongs that had happened, and then God happily sent rain to the parched land of Israel. This angered God and was only amended years later after sacrificing seven of Sauls sons to the Gibeonites by hanging them before Jehovah at Sauls hometown, Gibeah. After that, Gibeonites were no longer mentioned though there are some writers who believed that they were among the Nethinim, the ones selected to serve the temple. When He visits the iniquity upon successive generations, He is saying is that the results and curses that come automatically often go down a handful of generations. The latter believed that Saul's desire was to destroy them utterly. The rains did not come after the Days of Unleavened Bread when these seven men were executed. "There was a famine in the days of King David for three years, year after year. David was annonted by Sammuel Apr 10, 1035. They were probably innocent of this particular crime. God has torn the kingdom from you. How much food did Jesus produce? They decided to fight with the Gibeonites and teach them a lesson. Why is it just now that you are waking up to this? That would be such a carnal thing to dojust let the Gibeonites kill seven of Saul's kids who could claim the Israelite throne and get them out of the way. 1316). You cannot tell. He just let matters continue naturally and let it rub in for another six or seven months. He is beyond us; it does not make any sense. And they took old sacks on their donkeys, old wineskins torn and mended, old and patched sandals on their feet, and old garments on themselves; and all the bread of their provision was dry and moldy. Now, we move forward, not very long in time, to Joshua 9. He did not negotiate at all. David was Born Mar 2, 2022 A three-year famine occurs as a result of Sauls attack on the Gibeonites Mar 2, 2022. Ezekiel 18:19-20 indicates that guilt for sin is not transferable, but the consequences can often touch several generations. It says a bit later that somebody told him what that woman was doing out there protecting the bodies of the slain men of Saul's house for the past six months and it was as though he said, "Oh really? Should we make a covenant with them? Their representatives were not up front with the Israeli leaders. They were going to come in there and just exterminate. II Samuel 21:7 But the king spared Mephibosheth the son of Jonathan, the son of Saul, because of the LORD's oath that was between them, between David and Jonathan the son of Saul. If, in the event the Israelis ever came their way, they would be servants to the people of Israel. However there is nothing in the text that indicates he did this. Joshua 9:3-6 But when the inhabitants of Gibeon heard what Joshua had done to Jericho and Ai, they worked craftily [remember that], and went and pretended to be ambassadors. It did not come the next week, or the next month, or the month after that, all through the summer and into the fall holy days. To put it in a more modern time setting, a lot of people prefer Batman (the dark one), or Spiderman (the geek), to Superman for the very same reasons. These are the two hints. We do know the Gibeonites were cutters of wood and drawers of water for the altar of God the tabernacle was at Gibeon. God revealed that this calamity happened because of "Saul and for his bloody house, because he slew the Gibeonites ." Community answers are sorted based on votes. It does not seem so. Numbers 35:34 "Therefore do not defile the land which you inhabit, in the midst of which I dwell; for I the LORD dwell among the children of Israel.'". Leviticus 26:18-20 And after all this, if you do not obey Me, then I will punish you seven times more for your sins. 2. He did this "in his zeal for. If the Gibeonites brought guile and deceit into the land; it was Saul who set the example for deep and devastating So let seven of Sauls sons or grandsons be handed over to us, and we will execute them before the Lord at Gibeon, on the mountain of the Lord.. The angel of the LORD encamps all around those who fear Him, and delivers them. Up and down your family tree, sin does not go. & "Take heed that you be not deceived." He keeps his word even to his own disadvantage and does not change it [for his own benefit] (Psalm 15:1, 4; AMP). Then the men of David swore to him, saying, "You shall go out no more with us to battle, lest you quench the lamp of Israel.". September 01 2013 "No, we don't do things like that in Israel. That is how we overcome the dearth of the truth and the dearth of righteousness in our day. When asked about the time of the end; when questioned about the signs that would precede His Second Coming, our blessed Lord instinctively cautioned: "Take heed that no man deceive you." The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself. (4:10). By this time, having fought all his life since he was a teenagerup against Goliath when he was eighteen or soand here he was approaching 70 years old, and he was tired. . The higher the vote, the further up an answer is. In reading the Psalms, on the other hand, we get an idea of just how grateful he was for God's forgiveness and grace, because I believe he was aware of just what a rotten individual he really was. He went after a people that God did not want exterminated anymore. The time had passed. If a person sins, he receives God's judgment for those sins. This was obviously later in his life and reign. Whatever the case, it is very plain to me that he did not pay enough attention to this matter of the famine and drought, and the Gibeonites. This could indicate that the sons of Saul were actively implicated in this attempted genocide, although we cannot tell for sure as the details of this awful event are not recorded. The person who commits a sin is guilty of that sin, and God punishes that person for that sin. So you shall not pollute the land where you are [this is very important]; for blood defiles the land, and no atonement can be made for the land, for the blood that is shed on it, except by the blood of him who shed it. Throughout the Scriptures warnings of spiritual dangers are signaled by the flash cards of attention getting words like: "Take heed" or "Consider". That is the background on the Gibeonites, and their relationship with Israel. Here are guidelines to help facilitate a meaningful learning experience for everyone. They are two separate things. Exodus 20:4-6 You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. Jonathan. Another group, however, argues that as God's anointed king, They were the five sons of Merab, Saul's daughter. He apparently killed The Bible does not provide us the details of this killing. WebThese lists are not concerned with the Gibeonites at Gibeon, but with the Benjaminite group which came to settle at Gibeon in the course of time. * 1 Samuel 18:12 KJV And Saul was afraid of David, because the LORD was with him, and was departed from Saul. * 1 Samuel 18:15 KJV Wherefore when S Think about this for a moment. This was a long time ago. There is another thing that needs to be thrown out there as a possible scenario, and this would have been the very worst and lowest that David could have sunk to. And the Gibeonites said to him, "We will have no silver or gold from Saul or from his house, nor shall you kill any man in Israel for us." King David, for example, made huge errors in judgment and committed colossal sins. Why were two of Saul's sons and five of Saul's grandsons killed for a crime they didn't commit? It was not just Saul, but other members of his family. A snare is a trap. There were no conditions. If we would go through Luke 21:7-12, we would see that Jesus gave His disciples indications of what would happen if the time of the end began. God isn't very pleased that these bodies have been exposed for six months against His law.". The Gibeonites achieved their short term goal - survival; but they paid a terribly long term price for it - virtual slavery! Turn to Exodus 20 and see that right in the Ten Commandments it sounds like it could mean that sin does travel down the family tree. What I am trying to show you by going through these different places is that there is plenty of law that King David could have looked back on. 17 Then the children of Israel journeyed and came to their cities on the third day. I am putting this all together from history. This does not make any sense. This is like offering them reparations for what Saul had done, and they replied that it was not good enough. He is able to judge justly. God did not necessarily overlook all their sins, but He certainly forgave them. Joshua 9:14-16 Then the men of Israel took some of their provisions; but they did not ask counsel of the LORD. WebSaul kills the gentile Gibeonites (2 Sam 21) & banishes mediums in preparation for Tabernacle being moved from Nob to Gibeon. Web2 Samuel 21:2 indicates that King Saul pursued the Gibeonites and sought to kill them off "in his zeal for the children of Israel and Judah" (2 Samuel 21:5). BATTLE AGAINST ENVY AND JEALOUSY Joshua and that generation did not do their entire job, and so they were stuck. There are so many things I have got to do.". ", God answered immediately, "It is because of Saul and his bloodthirsty house. He had a body of law that he could have referred back to and come up with a solution. Of course, a part of it is being able to look at ourselves and see how dirty, nasty, and rotten we are, and saying, "There is no way that anybody could live in this world without sin; even God's beloved Son.". WebTranslation Details for 2 Samuel 21:1 Then there was a famine in the days of David three years, year after year; and David enquired of the LORD. King Saul exhibited that hubris, that overweening pride in his own decisions and that unfounded confidence in his own good judgment that he brought certain and lasting disaster upon his own dynasty. They fell for it hook, line, and sinker, and they were stuck. He does not seem to have asked the priest who would know the law the best to find out what Scripture said about situations like this. You can read about them for yourself in the Book of Joshua, chapters nine and ten. Why did Herod like to listen to John the Baptist, who criticized Herods lifestyle? Saul also had sound state reasons for his action, for the Gibeonites were occupying an enclave in the very And David sought the face of the Lord. But, the others were Saul's grandsons. Gave 7 of Saul's sons to the Gibeonites. It is very evident from verse 4 that somebody offered money, either from the palace or from the family of Saul. Pagan cultures were killed because they were pagan cultures and they were making war on Gods people. David asked. "There's something rotten in Denmark," as the saying goes. We see in this little vignette that innocent people die; grief lingers forever; idolatry is committed; and the curse of famine continues; another harvest fails; and the land remains defiled; everything stinks of death. It says that they were Saul's sons. David asked the Gibeonites what punishment would satisfy them and atone for (cover) Sauls sin of murder. The prophet Zechariah asks a question that is forever pertinent to all spiritual considerations and decisions: "For who hath despised the day of small things?" It is not pretty when we allow the people of the land to dictate to us. 'Whoever kills a person, the murderer shall be put to death on the testimony of witnesses [another layer that comes in]; but one witness is not sufficient testimony against a person for the death penalty. And your strength shall be spent in vain; for your land shall not yield its produce, nor shall the trees of the land yield their fruit. Things were going wrong. 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